Thief
I read through this article just this weekend and have to admit I’m a bit embarrassed. A lot of what is in the “Delvers Delve” article by David Bowman in the latest issue of Fight On! sounds very much like the reasoning I put into my take on the thief, right down to using a d6-based check for all skills.
Now, despite some glaring similarities, there are some big differences. First of all, most of the skills start off with a 2-in-6 chance for success, while I decided to start nearly everything off at 1-in-6. However, this is actually something I’ve been mulling over as my write-up languishes in “2nd Draft” status. I wonder if the skills at the higher levels are really good enough, and one possible solution was to start everything off a bit higher. Say, like giving a 2-in-6 chance for success.
More importantly, Bowman’s Delver takes two approaches, the first being a bonus to some skills based on a character background and the other being a dedicated Delver class. Neither of these methods is what I went with, having decided that thievery in the game could be best handled by making thievery an “add-on” sub-class option to a character’s standard class.
However, there are plenty of similarities here, particularly when I compare his full article to the extended write-up I have been working on which includes more details than the one-page proposal I’ve published so far. I will have to look this over and consider what’s written. I’ll also have to make sure that I don’t just steal stuff outright.
There’s a lot of good stuff in Fight On! #4, but so far this is the piece that I’m digging the most.
Tags: thief
In the comments on my attempt to make a thief palatable to old school tastes:
Incidentally, it reminds me of the “acrobatic mystic” option from the Rules Cyclopedia; in case you aren’t familiar with it, a character of the mystic class can choose (at character creation only) to have some special acrobatic skills. To balance this out, the mystic must take something like a -20% experience penalty.
I’m not, in fact, familiar with the “acrobatic mystic” from the RC. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever opened up an RC.
My first thought when I decided to eschew 2e (or later editions) and return to the old school, before I learned there was an Old School Renaissance going on, I wondered if going the Rules Cyclopedia route might not be the way to go for a simpler approach to the game. Seeing the prices on eBay and recalling the storybook style of the 1983 Basic set, I quickly abandoned this idea and soon thereafter discovered Swords & Wizardry and Labyrinth Lord.
Regardless of whether the “sub-class as an add-on” method has been done before or not, I think it’s a natural fit for thieves. Especially when trying to mimic the pulp fantasy style of swords and sorcery. If you haven’t checked out my take on the White Box Thief, go do so and let me know what you think.
It’s currently listed as a “2nd Draft” because I’m hoping to collect some more feedback, play the thing in a game or two, and ruminate a bit more before deciding on a final design. Also, the next issue of Knockspell magazine will contain a number of articles and proposals for S&W thieves, so I’d like to check them out before finalizing.
Tags: renaissance, thief
White Box Thievery - PDF
Sneaking and Skullduggery for Regular Adventurers
I’ve updated my take on thief skills for White Box Swords & Wizardry. No mechanical changes were made other than specifying some racial modifiers to some of the skills.
I’m still not sure if 25% XP is enough or not. I also haven’t decided if the ability to read magic scrolls is really needed, as thieves can be magic-users with this system.
Check out the updated version if interested. Any feedback (and don’t be afraid to hurt Kilgore’s feelings) is welcome.
I’ve also added the WB Thief to the Kreations page.
Tags: Kreations, rules, Swords & Wizardry, thief
I wanted to get this up and maybe get a little feedback, so even though it’s a bit rough and I don’t have a lot of time to talk about just this minute, here is my take on thieves for Swords & Sorcery White Box:
White Box Thievery
A Sub-Class option for Rogues and Footpads
I haven’t played this yet, so it’s very beta. However, I feel that this sub-class (or additional class) approach solves most of the problems I personally have with the thief, particularly when a large part of explaining how it works really involves how all characters engage in what have come to be called “thief skills.”
Check it out if interested. I’d love to hear what anyone thinks about it.
UPDATE: It seems that I’ve jacked up the PDF a little bit. I didn’t used dedicated PDF creation software, but rather printing software that also can make PDFs. Some of the punctuation marks are missing in the document. I’ll get a corrected version up tonight.
The current version is fine, just some quote marks and such are missing.
UPDATE 2: I’ve got a second draft up now.
Tags: Kreations, rules, Swords & Wizardry, thief
I’ve long had some issues with the thief class in D&D. This won’t be surprising to many, because it seems that nearly everyone has some issues with it.
I’ve been tinkering with some ideas about how to incorporate thievery into my upcoming S&W White Box campaign, and I’m currently leaning toward a system based on d6 checks similar to standard hearing and searching checks. This will almost certainly NOT be a separate class.
I will probably give standard chances for success for “thief skill” actions such as picking pockets, climbing walls, and opening locks that are available for anyone to try. This fits in well with the idea that “thief” is not a class but a profession. Anyone can be a “thief” by stealing something.
What I’m undecided on is if I will devise some way for characters and NPCs to improve standard chances by declaring that they are professional (or at least semi-pro) thieves. Perhaps some bonuses at certain levels in exchange for an XP penalty (i.e., a character could be a Fighter (Thief) by requiring 130% XP for each standard fighter level.) I’m not really sure at this point.
One thing I am pretty much set on sticking with is the 1d6 check. I want this to match up with the existing standard checks, as I’m seeing thief-like skills as just more standard abilities. A roll of ’6′ would indicate spectacular failure (caught picking a pocket, a fall from near the top of a wall, setting off the trap being disarmed, etc.). This rough granularity doesn’t permit a lot of fine improvement while leveling up, but I’ve got an idea about how to address that, too, if I go with the “thief sub-class” concept.
All that said, I see that the contents of Knockspell #2 magazine are going to be very thief-centric, with two takes on a thief class for WB and four (count ‘em!) takes for the Core rules. I’m sure that there’s going to be a lot of good material there, so I may want to wait to check it out before making my final decision.
Once I work out a few things I will post my current ideas.
Tags: rules, Swords & Wizardry, thief
