Labyrinth Lord
Advanced Edition Companion for Labyrinth Lord by Goblinoid Games
I’ll begin my short review of this product by echoing what a lot of others have said: When I played AD&D back in the early 1980s, anyone listening to our session would have thought we were playing Basic D&D using classes, spells, and monsters from the AD&D books. And we had never played Basic.
Those 1e hardbacks are classics. The options they provided for players and dungeon masters have provided the foundation that many fantasy RPGs and much of fantasy literature since the time has been built upon. In addition to the archetypal portrayals of adventurers, monsters, and magic the prose of these books helped establish a certain mood that influenced my thinking about how the game should be played. But the books have a weakness, and that is the fact that the actual rules for play are complex, scattered, and often contradictory. Some of them are on the verge of unusable.
So, like many others, we simply ignored most of the unneeded rules, simplified most of the rest, and played away never knowing that we were imitating that “kids” version of the game we wouldn’t get caught dead playing.
Taking the best of the advanced edition and adapting it for the clone of the 1981 version of the Basic/Expert edition of the game is a brilliant idea, and the execution is well-done.
The book itself is 160 pages in length, compared to the 140 page core Labyrinth Lord rule book. Although there is a section containing new rules, all of the regular rules for play are in the core book only. You definitely need the basic Labyrinth Lord book to use the Advanced Edition Companion. I put my two full-art PDFs together in a one volume comb-bound book I call the Tome of the Labyrinth Lord, and it’s working quite well.
The sections on character classes and spells completely replace the class and spell sections of the core book. The cleric class, for instance, is complete in the AEC and references to the core book are not required. The magic missile spell is included in the expanded spell descriptions in the AEC. All weapons and equipment from the core set are also in the lists of the AEC. This is a nice move and heads off one of the weaknesses of multi-volume rule sets: the need to flip back and forth between multiple sources for information on one specific subject.
All of the races and classes from the first edition of the advanced game are present and accounted for, and they are very closely re-produced. Fans of the original game will not be disappointed. Dan Proctor went to great effort to make sure that the AEC material is fully compatible with the core LL system, and this means that your third-level Dwarf can adventure right alongside a new elven thief and a paladin. I probably won’t continue to use race-as-class characters in my campaign, but those who want to will have no problems doing so. The basic hit dice levels are used, meaning that fighters get a d8, clerics get d6, and thieves d4, but the hit dice used in the hardcovers is listed as an optional rule.
The other two major sections of the book, those containing new monsters and new magic items, do NOT duplicate content from the core book. I believe that space was the main reason for this, and with 60+ pages of monsters and magic in the core book, duplicating it in the AEC would have meant a book well over 200 pages. Monsters and items from the core book are included in lists and tables that note their location. Virtually everything is faithfully reproduced as closely as the lawyers will allow, and (again) fans of the original game should not have anything to complain about.
The artwork is quite good. I don’t usually put a high premium on artwork, not really bothering to worry about it much unless it stinks, but I must admit that the illustrations in the AEC do a lot of good. This art, particularly the depictions of the demons and devils, is quite evocative of the old-school mentality and should please most gamers looking for a link to the good old days in a system from today.
It’s hard to find much to criticize here, to be honest. Virtually all the classes, spells, monsters, and magic you remember is present. Two notable exceptions are bards and psionics. While some will grumble about the former, I can’t imagine too many missing the latter. And with all the other advanced classes available, building your own first edition bard should not be too difficult if that’s what you really want.
All in all, the Advanced Edition Companion is a great product. Even if you have no intention of using the advanced characters, the spells, monsters, and magic items can certainly be used in a regular Labyrinth Lord game. And something that must not be overlooked is the fact that this is all open game material, meaning it’s out there for us forever.
Five out of five stars on this one.
UPDATE: Oops. Forgot to include links.
The Advanced Edition Companion is available on Lulu at Goblinoid Games’ print store in hardcover ($32.95) and perfect-bound softcover ($22.95). PDFs are available at RPG Now in standard full-art versions ($5.95) and a free no-art version. The free version simply has the art removed, leaving page numbering to match the standard version.
I purchased the full-art PDF. My guess is that the covers on the dead tree versions look incredible, but my preference for digest-sized books and comb or coil binding keeps me from springing for a print version at this time.
UPDATE 2: As I began working on a little project I began to realize that the differences between the races in the AEC and the 1e advanced game are more significant than I initially thought. Though I don’t think it will stop too many people, it’s worth taking a look at. I summarized them here.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord, review
I’ve been thinking about the hit point method explicitly stated in Swords & Wizardry White Box, the “re-roll all hit dice” method:
Hit points are re-rolled each time a Player Character advances in level—however, if the re-roll results in a character having fewer hit points for their new level than their previous level, ignore the re-roll and retain the prior amount.
This is obviously different than the “standard” method of simply rolling an HD and adding it to a PC’s previous total at each level advancement, but I’m thinking of using it in my Labyrinth Lord game. I’ve got a few posts on this topic planned for the next few days, but I lucked out when a discussion of this erupted on the Swords & Wizardry board. I encourage you to check it out, starting about here for the in-depth analysis and this thread for an excellent summary.
During the discussion, Random ran one million (!) simulations of the various totals at various levels and posted the results. Using his numbers, I put together a couple of charts to display the curves at 5th and 7th levels for fighters:
Hit Points Standard and Re-Rolled at 5th Level
Hit Points Standard and Re-Rolled at 7th Level
The number on the bottom is the hit point total, the number on the left is the number of times that result came up out of 1,000,000. Keep in mind that S&W WB uses d6 hit dice for fighters. Click the images for a better look.
As you can see, the re-roll method has a slightly sharper curve to the bell and tops out a little higher than the standard method, but not by a whole lot. Random’s simulations showed an average difference of less than 1.88 hit points at 10th level, something I don’t find significant enough to spend any time worrying about.
I like the idea that a “bad” HD roll, say a roll of 1 when advancing from 5th to 6th level, can be “made up” at the next level. The cost, of course, is the fact that hit points may not increase at all if earlier rolls were particularly good. As for narrowing the bell, drawing most characters toward the mean, I don’t see that as a problem, though those who are convinced they can beat the odds and get nearly max hit points each level won’t like it.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord, rules, Swords & Wizardry
Regular readers of this blog will know that Kilgore prefers digest-sized books and comb or coil binding. The combination of small size and ability to lay open flat at the game table is a hard one to beat.
So when I picked up the Advanced Edition Companion for Labyrinth Lord I knew I had to make a comb-bound digest containing both volumes:
300 pages of Labyrinth Lord in one digest-sized volume
More than anything, I don’t want to have to shuffle back and forth between multiple books at the table. Both are currently complete in this tome, so it’s a pretty hefty little digest:
The Tome of the Labyrinth Lord (and his dice)
I put another clear cover in between the two books as a divider and to show of the AEC cover:
Labyrinth Lord + Advanced Edition Compainion = Mega Digest of Adventure
The comb I used is just barely big enough, but the next size I had available is way too big. I may pull sections 2 and 3 (classes and spells) of the original book out as all the material is repeated. For example, the cleric’s turning undead table, the magic missile spell description, and the fighter experience point table are all in both.
We’re probably going to use AEC character classes only, so losing the material on the original elf, dwarf, and halfling race/class won’t matter. It would save over 30 pages and might make flipping pages near the beginning or end of the tome a bit easier.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord
The Advanced Edition Companion for Labyrinth Lord has been released.
I picked up the PDF last night. A free no-art version is also available. The dead tree versions can be ordered through Lulu.
I’ve been looking over the preview version for a few days. Though I haven’t been able to give it the attention that I wanted to, I’ve come to the conclusion that we’re going to go ahead and covert our existing campaigns over to LL-AEC almost immediately.
Unfortunately, I didn’t have time to print it out in my preferred size, digest, to bind at work today with our comb binder. So I’ll have to wait another day before it’s in my hands. Dash it all.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord
I’ve not been all that sure about the Labyrinth Lord Society deal, particularly since I have little interest in running official demo games. (At least at this point…) I’ve considered joining up anyway as a show of solidarity, but my lack of gaming time has kept me from following through.
But I’ve been impatient for the Advanced Edition Companion for months now and the offer of a preview for LLS members was enough to get me to send in an application.
Labyrinth Lord is my game of choice, and if joining the Labyrinth Lord Society helps promote it in any way, I’m happy to help. Especially if I can finally get a glimpse at the Advanced Edition Characters supplement.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord
For previous posts on this topic, see this and this.
First, the thread I started on the Goblinoid Games Labyrinth Lord forum sort of took off. A lot of great discussion there. Here are a few things I particularly liked:
What I like for a retro game like LL is 3d6 assign in order. To do a quick sample:
1st roll = 9
Before I go any further, I have to assign this to one of the six. It’s not what I want for a prime ability score, so I’ll go elsewhere. Always good to have at least average Con, and Con 9 will keep Dwarf and Halfling an option, so I assign this to Con.
The idea is that you have to slot your roll before making the next roll, which seems like a workable compromise between “in order” and “arrange to taste.” If you’re set on playing a magic-user, you wait until you get a good roll to fill the Int slot. Though, of course, you may not get a good roll. Or, you may get a better one later. As in Yahtzee, it’s up to you if you use that roll for ’4 of a Kind’ or for ‘Threes’.
I like to have humans roll 5d6 (dropping the lowest two rolls) to make them larger-then-life types, but non-humans roll 4d6 (dropping the lowest roll).
From the comment it sounds like demi-humans do NOT have level limits in his game. This seems like a decent idea for mere humans in such a game.
But the first thing I’d consider to “power down” B/X/LL would be to scale back the ability modifiers*. Something like this, maybe:
(sample Strength mod)
3-4 …… -2
5-6 …… -1
7-14 …… 0
15-16 .. +1
17-18 .. +2
I actually think I prefer bonuses to start at 15, but changing the ability modifier scheme is a bigger change than altering the method of rolling up abilities in the first place. Though I’m not at all a dead-on by-the-book player by any means, I also don’t like to tinker with things more than I feel is necessary. The low power curve of Swords & Wizardry White Box (based on OD&D with no supplements) made it just fine for PCs to usually have no bonuses at all, but LL is designed with at least some bonuses in mind. If bonuses are lowered, PCs are at an unfair disadvantage unless abilities are actually RAISED to make up for it. This problem is summed up here:
It’s been my experience that lowering the ability score modifiers actually just encourages the players to only accept higher scores. I’d rather give a +1 at 13 and have PCs with high stats of 15 than have players all refusing to play a character that doesn’t have at least one 17 or 18.
Indeed.
Here’s an interesting idea:
I just had a weird thought for combining 3d6 and 4d6. Give each ability a starting and potential maximum stat. It would work like this:
For each ability, roll three regular dice and one die of a different color – the potential die. The starting level of an ability is the total of the first three dice. The maximum level of the ability is the total of the three highest of all four dice. For example:
Rolling for Strength, a player rolls 4, 3 and 3 on the first three dice and a 6 on the potential die. Starting Strength is 4 + 3 +3, or 10. The potential maximum is the highest three of the four die (4,3,3,6) or 4+3+6 or 13. So the character would list Strength as 10/13. His staring Strength would be 10 but over time he could raise it to 13.
To raise abilities, every time a character goes up a level, he can raise one ability of his choice by +1, provided the ability is below its maximum.
I’ve long thought about how to allow ability increases in a reasonable manner. It’s something that we’ve never done, but I can see it being worth thinking about. This particular method sounds sort of cool.
If you’re interested in the topic of rolling up abilities, I heartily recommend reading through the entire thread. Add your own thoughts, too.
As for me, reading through the feedback here and on the board has got me pretty much convinced that 3d6 is the way to go. With bonuses available at 13, 4d6 just gives out too many pluses without enough minuses.
My plan is to use 3d6, though I haven’t decided if it’s going to be:
- 3d6 in order, with 2-for-1 adjustment allowed as per the rules, or
- 3d6, arrange as desired, or
- 3d6, let the player choose one of the above options before rolling
Either method will allow a player to create the class of character he or she desires, which is something that I do think is in the best interest of everyone at the table.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord, rules
As a follow-up to last night’s post on rolling up ability scores for Labyrinth Lord, here’s a screenshot of a little Excel sheet I whipped up to simulate some rolls:
Green indicates a bonus of 1 or greater, Red indicates a penalty of 1 or greater
You can click for a closer look, but, before you do, notice the green and red on each side. Green indicates a score of 13 or better and bonus. Red indicates a score below 9 and a penalty. As I noted last night, it’s that bonus at 13 that makes me cringe when talking about 4d6. So much green on the left side.
Something else to consider is the class requirements. In LL, only elves, dwarves, and halflings even have a minimum score required, and that’s a 9 in every case. Certainly not all that difficult with 3d6. Especially with the “trade 2 points somewhere else to add 1 to your prime req” rule, which I’ve never really liked but may consider using if we go with 3d6.
Another option, one I used in my short-lived Swords & Wizardry White Box game, was “3d6 in order, plus a 7th 3d6 roll which can be traded with any of the first six.” What I liked about this was that it helped make sure that a PC had a good chance to avoid a really bad score while not doing too much to ramp up the power level.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord, rules
Explore the remains of a legendary kingdom thought to have vanished from the face of the earth.
What really happened?
Where are the Atlanteans now?
Who lives in the wreckage today?
What ancient treasures can you uncover?
And will you survive to tell the tale?
Ruins of Atlantis is the new campaign setting I’m working on for my Labyrinth Lord game. It’s going to be a sandbox-type setting with an emphasis on exploration. If the players are interested, we could end up digging into the history of things and try to discover what happened and why. Or, more likely, we could end up digging into the ruins in search of monsters to kill and treasure to loot.
Though I’ve currently only got a very small pool of players, I plan to set this up so that we can West Marches it if the opportunity arises.
Below is the first rough map of the setting:
Ruins of Atlantis - First Draft
Click for bigger version
Tags: Atlantis, Labyrinth Lord, maps
