Labyrinth Lord
For our adventures in the Forbidden Jungle, we’ve had to modify our Labyrinth Minions system to include the native tribesmen who are hiring themselves out to hunters, explorers, and adventurers.
There is a steady stream of people from the settled lands across the sea arriving in the crowded town at the mouth of the huge river which snakes up into the Heart of Darkness. Many of these (which we call “old worlders”) arrive with hopes of gold, ivory, and glory but soon find themselves with nothing but a rusty sword and an empty stomach. They are only too willing to hire themselves out as porters, torch bearers, or men-at-arms to an expedition.
Also, the word has spread among the native tribes that gold can be earned by working for these crazy old worlders. So there is usually no shortage of natives looking for work as well. Unlike most campaigns I’ve run, in the Forbidden Jungle there is no shortage of potential hirelings.
And it’s a good thing, as the Forbidden Jungle is a deadly place. The natives know and accept this with a grim determination. The newcomers maybe don’t, but with no family on the continent there is no one to complain if someone heads out on an expedition but never returns. Most of the old worlders who don’t return are never missed by anyone. It’s sad, but the jungle has no sympathy.
Here is the modified version of the Minions sheet:
Jungle Minions
Free PDF
The native tribesmen are more lightly armed and armored than the old-worlders but are a bit hardier in the environment as reflected by their slightly better hit points. The scale mail for the tribesmen can represent either new world scale mail or perhaps some special tribal construction.
Tags: Forbidden Jungle, Kreations, Labyrinth Lord
The comments section on my recent post about the differences between racial abilities in 1e AD&D and the new Labyrinth Lord Advanced Edition Companion attracted the notice of Dan Proctor and he weighed in a number of topics, one of them the sheer number of games seeing the light of day now that the Old-School Renaissance seems to be in full swing:
I think the real concern people have but have a hard time putting into words is that it is hard to support every clone (ish) game that is coming out or will come out. Many many more will come out, I have no doubt. I think what people are feeling is “support fatigue.”
How many more of these should we high-five before we say screw it, who cares? That’s a legit question, and I don’t have an answer. Honesty I don’t think any of us should feel an obligation to support every new retro game that comes out…one might ask why support AEC instead of OSRIC. I’m not asking anyone to.
I was thrilled to have Dan leave this comment, as it addresses something I’ve been wanting to write about for some time.
In July I wrote:
I’m also wondering how many people actually play multiple systems. Is it uncommon? With so many retro-clones, spin-offs of retro-clones, and new games out there now, not to mention the originals, do many players utilize several of them? Or do most pick a single system and stick with it?
Personally, I cannot materially support (in terms of purchases) every old-school game out there. I cannot even support every one I think is particularly good. First, the financial commitment would be far greater than I can afford. There is a lot of product being released, much of it of very high quality. I cannot even justify the expense of Labyrinth Lord hardcovers at this time, even though LL is my choice of one game to rule them all. There are a few products I’ve purchased to show my solidarity with the creators, and there will be more in the future. But not very many. If I don’t think I’ll use it at the table, I probably won’t be spending any money on it.
But even more limited than my gold is is my time. I simply don’t have time to play all the games I would like to check out. The whole reason I chose to go All Labyrinth Lord All the Time was that I was having trouble getting anywhere on my proposed S&W White Box game. And it wasn’t a lack of interest, as I was (and still am) very intrigued by the power curve of White Box. But there is only so much time in the day and so many players to play, so I won’t be spreading my effort over a half-dozen cool games. Unfortunately, this means that some games I’d sure like to try, such as Ruins & Ronin and Mutant Future, probably won’t get a chance.
I think most players are in the same boat as I am. I’ve made my choice (at least for now) and others will have to make their own choices based on their own interests. Some will pick multiple games. Some will play one or two but buy material for many others. I don’t know which direction things will take, though it appears that there will be a small number “bigger” games and a large number of “smaller” ones.
I’d hate to see good games struggle because things are so diluted, but the market will have its say. Fortunately, the publishing options available mean that nothing has to permanently “die,” and I think that quality material will always be in demand.
If you write it well, they will play it.
UPDATE: From a comment:
Arguably, extra gaming time is better spent expanding a smaller game than grokking a bigger game. Add to that the ease with which publishers can nuance games with house variants and setting/genre tweaks, and yes, we’ll continue to see more titles than we can keep up with.
But I think you hit the nail on the head: the required number of games is as many as it takes to find one you like.
I don’t think that we’ll reach a state of truly “too many” old-school retro-clones and retro-spin-offs. Such a state would be similar to having “too much” beer or “too many” girlfriends.
But (and this is a big “but”) once one finds the right game, beer, or woman, the others usually sort of fade into the background.
UPDATE 2: Grognardia linked to yesterday’s post with Dan Proctor’s comments. That in itself is cool, but I encourage you to check out what James has to say on the subject.
Here is a summary of the significant changes in character races from the 1e advanced game to Labyrinth Lord’s Advanced Edition Companion:
- Dwarves:
- Lost orcish language
- Lost +1 to-hit vs. half-orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs
- Lost -4 defense bonus vs. ogres, trolls, ogre magi, giants, and titans
- Saving throw bonuses vs. magic and poison are handled differently with roughly similar results
- Gained saving throw bonuses vs. breath weapons
- Elves:
- Lost 90% resistance to sleep and charm
- Lost +1 to-hit with bows
- Lost gnome, halfling, hobgoblin, orcish, and gnoll languages
- Gained kobold language
- Lost surprise bonus when alone or with only other elves
- Gained resistance to ghoul’s paralyzation
- Gnomes:
- Gained orcish language
- Lost ability to communicate with burrowing mammals
- Saving throw bonuses vs. magic are handled differently with roughly similar results
- Gained saving throw bonuses vs. poison and breath weapons
- Lost +1 to-hit vs. kobolds and goblins
- Halflings:
- Saving throw bonuses vs. magic and poison are handled differently with roughly similar results
- Gained saving throw bonuses vs. breath weapons
- Lost all racial languages (6 total)…halfings in core LL also list no languages
- Lost infravision (some breeds)
- Lost tunnel observation skills
- Lost surprise bonus when alone or with only other halflings
- Gained ability to hide in wilderness
- Gained ability to hid in shadows underground
- Gained initiative bonus when alone or with only other halflings
- Gained +1 to-hit on all missile attacks
- Half-Elves:
- Lost 30% resistance to sleep and charm
- Gained resistance to ghoul’s paralyzation
- Lost gnome, halfling, and goblin languages
- Half-Orcs:
- Gained ability to detect secret and hidden doors
I haven’t looked at changes to racial level limits or thief skill adjustments yet.
To be honest, now that I look more closely and make a list, the changes are lot more significant than I had thought when I wrote my review. I will add a link to this list from the review. Personally, I don’t really mind seeing what is generally a “powering-down” of the demi-human races, but this seems a bit excessive.
My guess is that it is due to how the race-classes were written up in the 1981 B/X game, which mostly carried over into Labyrinth Lord. When making the AEC races match racial abilities of the core LL race-classes, a lot had to go. Much of it, though nice flavor, isn’t really necessary. But some of it is more than just cosmetic.
This isn’t a knock against LL or the AEC, as I really like the simplified mechanics and write-ups of the basic game. And taking advanced stuff and porting it into a basic game was no mean trick, so this list is meant as an observation, not a criticism. If every little advanced bit was more or less duplicated in the AEC, it wouldn’t be a basic game any more, would it? The beauty of the AEC is that it makes using the advanced stuff in a basic game a snap. And it does it well.
Even if elves don’t get a +1 with bows other than crossbows.
UPDATE: Some seem to have taken this listing as a knock against the AEC for some reason. I haven’t quite figured out how that happened, as it’s merely a quick listing of simple fact and my written conclusion is generally supportive of the decisions made.
I merely thought that a look at some of the details would be interesting. I’ve played LL (and a very little S&W) exclusively over the past year, haven’t played 1e AD&D since 1989 or so, and the differences were greater than I had remembered. I thought others may be interested, too, in a look at some details. I’m mystified how that could bother anyone.
UPDATE 2: Grognardia linked to this post and Dan Proctor’s comments. That in itself is cool, but I encourage you to check out what James has to say on the subject.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord
Advanced Edition Companion for Labyrinth Lord by Goblinoid Games
I’ll begin my short review of this product by echoing what a lot of others have said: When I played AD&D back in the early 1980s, anyone listening to our session would have thought we were playing Basic D&D using classes, spells, and monsters from the AD&D books. And we had never played Basic.
Those 1e hardbacks are classics. The options they provided for players and dungeon masters have provided the foundation that many fantasy RPGs and much of fantasy literature since the time has been built upon. In addition to the archetypal portrayals of adventurers, monsters, and magic the prose of these books helped establish a certain mood that influenced my thinking about how the game should be played. But the books have a weakness, and that is the fact that the actual rules for play are complex, scattered, and often contradictory. Some of them are on the verge of unusable.
So, like many others, we simply ignored most of the unneeded rules, simplified most of the rest, and played away never knowing that we were imitating that “kids” version of the game we wouldn’t get caught dead playing.
Taking the best of the advanced edition and adapting it for the clone of the 1981 version of the Basic/Expert edition of the game is a brilliant idea, and the execution is well-done.
The book itself is 160 pages in length, compared to the 140 page core Labyrinth Lord rule book. Although there is a section containing new rules, all of the regular rules for play are in the core book only. You definitely need the basic Labyrinth Lord book to use the Advanced Edition Companion. I put my two full-art PDFs together in a one volume comb-bound book I call the Tome of the Labyrinth Lord, and it’s working quite well.
The sections on character classes and spells completely replace the class and spell sections of the core book. The cleric class, for instance, is complete in the AEC and references to the core book are not required. The magic missile spell is included in the expanded spell descriptions in the AEC. All weapons and equipment from the core set are also in the lists of the AEC. This is a nice move and heads off one of the weaknesses of multi-volume rule sets: the need to flip back and forth between multiple sources for information on one specific subject.
All of the races and classes from the first edition of the advanced game are present and accounted for, and they are very closely re-produced. Fans of the original game will not be disappointed. Dan Proctor went to great effort to make sure that the AEC material is fully compatible with the core LL system, and this means that your third-level Dwarf can adventure right alongside a new elven thief and a paladin. I probably won’t continue to use race-as-class characters in my campaign, but those who want to will have no problems doing so. The basic hit dice levels are used, meaning that fighters get a d8, clerics get d6, and thieves d4, but the hit dice used in the hardcovers is listed as an optional rule.
The other two major sections of the book, those containing new monsters and new magic items, do NOT duplicate content from the core book. I believe that space was the main reason for this, and with 60+ pages of monsters and magic in the core book, duplicating it in the AEC would have meant a book well over 200 pages. Monsters and items from the core book are included in lists and tables that note their location. Virtually everything is faithfully reproduced as closely as the lawyers will allow, and (again) fans of the original game should not have anything to complain about.
The artwork is quite good. I don’t usually put a high premium on artwork, not really bothering to worry about it much unless it stinks, but I must admit that the illustrations in the AEC do a lot of good. This art, particularly the depictions of the demons and devils, is quite evocative of the old-school mentality and should please most gamers looking for a link to the good old days in a system from today.
It’s hard to find much to criticize here, to be honest. Virtually all the classes, spells, monsters, and magic you remember is present. Two notable exceptions are bards and psionics. While some will grumble about the former, I can’t imagine too many missing the latter. And with all the other advanced classes available, building your own first edition bard should not be too difficult if that’s what you really want.
All in all, the Advanced Edition Companion is a great product. Even if you have no intention of using the advanced characters, the spells, monsters, and magic items can certainly be used in a regular Labyrinth Lord game. And something that must not be overlooked is the fact that this is all open game material, meaning it’s out there for us forever.
Five out of five stars on this one.
UPDATE: Oops. Forgot to include links.
The Advanced Edition Companion is available on Lulu at Goblinoid Games’ print store in hardcover ($32.95) and perfect-bound softcover ($22.95). PDFs are available at RPG Now in standard full-art versions ($5.95) and a free no-art version. The free version simply has the art removed, leaving page numbering to match the standard version.
I purchased the full-art PDF. My guess is that the covers on the dead tree versions look incredible, but my preference for digest-sized books and comb or coil binding keeps me from springing for a print version at this time.
UPDATE 2: As I began working on a little project I began to realize that the differences between the races in the AEC and the 1e advanced game are more significant than I initially thought. Though I don’t think it will stop too many people, it’s worth taking a look at. I summarized them here.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord, review
I’ve been thinking about the hit point method explicitly stated in Swords & Wizardry White Box, the “re-roll all hit dice” method:
Hit points are re-rolled each time a Player Character advances in level—however, if the re-roll results in a character having fewer hit points for their new level than their previous level, ignore the re-roll and retain the prior amount.
This is obviously different than the “standard” method of simply rolling an HD and adding it to a PC’s previous total at each level advancement, but I’m thinking of using it in my Labyrinth Lord game. I’ve got a few posts on this topic planned for the next few days, but I lucked out when a discussion of this erupted on the Swords & Wizardry board. I encourage you to check it out, starting about here for the in-depth analysis and this thread for an excellent summary.
During the discussion, Random ran one million (!) simulations of the various totals at various levels and posted the results. Using his numbers, I put together a couple of charts to display the curves at 5th and 7th levels for fighters:
Hit Points Standard and Re-Rolled at 5th Level
Hit Points Standard and Re-Rolled at 7th Level
The number on the bottom is the hit point total, the number on the left is the number of times that result came up out of 1,000,000. Keep in mind that S&W WB uses d6 hit dice for fighters. Click the images for a better look.
As you can see, the re-roll method has a slightly sharper curve to the bell and tops out a little higher than the standard method, but not by a whole lot. Random’s simulations showed an average difference of less than 1.88 hit points at 10th level, something I don’t find significant enough to spend any time worrying about.
I like the idea that a “bad” HD roll, say a roll of 1 when advancing from 5th to 6th level, can be “made up” at the next level. The cost, of course, is the fact that hit points may not increase at all if earlier rolls were particularly good. As for narrowing the bell, drawing most characters toward the mean, I don’t see that as a problem, though those who are convinced they can beat the odds and get nearly max hit points each level won’t like it.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord, rules, Swords & Wizardry
Regular readers of this blog will know that Kilgore prefers digest-sized books and comb or coil binding. The combination of small size and ability to lay open flat at the game table is a hard one to beat.
So when I picked up the Advanced Edition Companion for Labyrinth Lord I knew I had to make a comb-bound digest containing both volumes:
300 pages of Labyrinth Lord in one digest-sized volume
More than anything, I don’t want to have to shuffle back and forth between multiple books at the table. Both are currently complete in this tome, so it’s a pretty hefty little digest:
The Tome of the Labyrinth Lord (and his dice)
I put another clear cover in between the two books as a divider and to show of the AEC cover:
Labyrinth Lord + Advanced Edition Compainion = Mega Digest of Adventure
The comb I used is just barely big enough, but the next size I had available is way too big. I may pull sections 2 and 3 (classes and spells) of the original book out as all the material is repeated. For example, the cleric’s turning undead table, the magic missile spell description, and the fighter experience point table are all in both.
We’re probably going to use AEC character classes only, so losing the material on the original elf, dwarf, and halfling race/class won’t matter. It would save over 30 pages and might make flipping pages near the beginning or end of the tome a bit easier.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord
The Advanced Edition Companion for Labyrinth Lord has been released.
I picked up the PDF last night. A free no-art version is also available. The dead tree versions can be ordered through Lulu.
I’ve been looking over the preview version for a few days. Though I haven’t been able to give it the attention that I wanted to, I’ve come to the conclusion that we’re going to go ahead and covert our existing campaigns over to LL-AEC almost immediately.
Unfortunately, I didn’t have time to print it out in my preferred size, digest, to bind at work today with our comb binder. So I’ll have to wait another day before it’s in my hands. Dash it all.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord
I’ve not been all that sure about the Labyrinth Lord Society deal, particularly since I have little interest in running official demo games. (At least at this point…) I’ve considered joining up anyway as a show of solidarity, but my lack of gaming time has kept me from following through.
But I’ve been impatient for the Advanced Edition Companion for months now and the offer of a preview for LLS members was enough to get me to send in an application.
Labyrinth Lord is my game of choice, and if joining the Labyrinth Lord Society helps promote it in any way, I’m happy to help. Especially if I can finally get a glimpse at the Advanced Edition Characters supplement.
Tags: Labyrinth Lord
